The Partovi Effect

The Four Levels of Understanding Nutrition That Could Save Your Health- and Your Life!

• Dr. Ryan and Mrs. Madi Partovi • Season 1 • Episode 18

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Are you stuck in "Level 0" nutrition thinking, or are you ready to improve your health? This episode of The Partovi Effect breaks down the four levels of nutritional understanding — and where most people go wrong. Get ready for a paradigm shift.


In this episode of The Partovi Effect, Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD, NMD, MIFH, and Mrs. Madi Partovi challenge everything you think you know about nutrition. They introduce the concept of "Levels of Nutritional Understanding," taking listeners on a journey from outdated beliefs to cutting-edge insights about personalized nutrition. From the myths surrounding calorie counting to the power of nutrigenomics, this episode will forever change the way you think about food and health. Discover how personalized nutrition could be the key to ending chronic disease for future generations.

Key Takeaways:

  • The 4 Levels of Nutritional Understanding — From "eat whatever you want" to precision nutrition.
  • Why "Calories In, Calories Out" is Flawed — And what you should focus on instead.
  • Micronutrients & Clean Eating — How small changes can make a big impact on your health.
  • Personalized Nutrition & Nutrigenomics — The future of food as medicine and its impact on generations to come.
  • How Misinformation Shapes Our Health Choices — Learn to recognize "expert advice" that may be holding you back.


We love hearing from you! Do you have questions or want to suggest a future podcast topic? Email us today at office@drpartovi.com — your input helps us create content that serves you best.

We love hearing from you! Do you have questions or want to suggest a future podcast topic? Email us today at office@drpartovi.com — your input helps us create content that serves you best.

Visit Our Website- Aspen Wellness Institute

The contents of this podcast are for educational purposes only and do not constitute medical advice. Talk to your medical professional before starting any new treatment.

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[00:00:00] 

[00:00:00] Introduction to the Partovi Effect

[00:00:00] Mrs. Madi Partovi: Welcome to this episode of the Partovi Effect. My name is Mrs. Madi Partovi.

[00:00:05] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And I'm Dr. Ryan Partovi. 

[00:00:07] Level 0: The Ignorance of Nutrition

[00:00:07] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: So level 0 fundamentally, these are going to be people who believe that it really doesn't matter what you eat does not affect your health.

[00:00:17] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And some of them may have the view of. Just make sure you're getting enough calories and you'll be fine, right? And so experts at this level are going to be You your friend Bubba when you go over to his house, and he's got beer and pizza and he tells you, Oh, and he's kind of the ringleader because he's got his group of people and he's got a party.

[00:00:36] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And Bubba says, Oh, I have a slice of pizza. Oh, I have another beer. It's good for you, pat you on the back, like, Oh, yeah, I have another piece of pizza. Oh, you'd enjoy it's good for you, put some meat on your bones. Similarly, another expert at level zero would be grandma, especially If grandma came from the old world, which I have experienced, which is the idea that being a little bit overweight is better than being underweight, and [00:01:00] that's a classic sort of old world philosophy that a lot of people, a lot of immigrants have this country have to deal with because they have to navigate a country where there's like ridiculous abundance over abundance of calories.

[00:01:13] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: and frankly, nutritional deficiencies, but that's a whole nother topic. But grandma will say, Oh, have another slice of cake. It's good for you. 

[00:01:20] Mrs. Madi Partovi: Eat some more rice, honey. Yeah. Eat some more food, honey. Why you don't not eating so much? 

[00:01:24] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Right, exactly. So this is the experts at the zeroth level of nutritional understanding.

[00:01:31] Level 1: Calories In, Calories Out

[00:01:31] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: So then we have level one. Who's level one? Level one is going to be fundamentally people who have a calories in calories out model of understanding of nutrition. These are going to be people who primarily focus on macro nutrients and calories who say, look, when it comes to weight loss, when it comes to health, the only thing you really need to focus on is, making sure that you're getting less calories.

[00:01:58] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Then you're expending on a daily [00:02:00] basis and the only thing that maybe if, let's say you have diabetes, you may have to play around with your macronutrients. Macronutrients, for those who don't know, are going to be carbohydrates, under which lies fiber and different types of fiber and sugar and different types of sugar.

[00:02:17] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: That's the first group. Carbohydrates, second group, protein, third group, fat. fats, right? And then underneath fats, you've got monounsaturated, polyunsaturated, saturated fats. People have seen those on the nutrition labels, right? But basically the level one knowledge is going to be basically starting and stopping on the nutrition facts that are on the back of most things that you buy at the grocery store.

[00:02:41] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And the focus there is Reducing calories, making sure that, your macros are dialed in if you've got specific health issues that require variations there. And, you're experts at this level, and then basically the idea that they'd love to put forward is, oh, just make sure you're eating a [00:03:00] balanced diet, right?

[00:03:00] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Like, other than that, other than, maybe adjust the calories here. Macros here a little bit. Just make sure you're eating a balanced diet. You get all the nutrients you need. You don't really need to worry about taking any nutraceuticals. That all stuff is just makes expensive urine, right?

[00:03:13] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: You'll see these people write articles and they'll be on TV shows and they'll talk. These are going to be a lot of your registered dietitians, not all of them, But a lot of them keep in mind that their professional organization is sponsored by Big Ag, right? So they have a vested interest in keeping people on ultra processed crap that they call food, which is not actually food.

[00:03:33] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And frankly, a lot of conventional medicine again, not a dig at them. Just like, hey, you get three weeks of nutrition class. Like, that's all you get. So, of course, you're going to take what you got from that class, which is basically nutrient it's diseases that are caused by nutrient deficiencies, which, I mean, deficiency is well, frankly, it's actually under underdiagnosed in our country.

[00:03:57] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Most people have an average of two nutrient [00:04:00] deficiencies at any one time, and certain nutrient deficiencies are more common than others, but they're often underdiagnosed and underappreciated, underrecognized because again, it's a three week class, like, and it's like three hours, once a week, maybe twice a week.

[00:04:15] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And then that's it. So that's the nutrition understanding of like the conventional medical doctor, even frankly most of the osteopaths, unless again, they've done their own study, which is a whole different ball of wax, but Sorry, your average graduate is going to basically, or even nurses, again, there's a lot of nurses out there, including our very own nurse practitioner, Kim Desch, who've done a lot more research and work on this, but just coming out of nursing school, what are you going to know?

[00:04:40] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: It's going to be very comparable to what you know coming out of medical school. So. And again that's not a dig. That's just where they are, right? 

[00:04:48] Level 2: Micronutrients and Clean Eating

[00:04:48] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Level two, moving on to level two of nutrition understanding, which is actually the third level, but you know, now at this level, it starts to get a little [00:05:00] more nuanced.

[00:05:00] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Right? You start to get more micronutrients at play. So we're talking about vitamins. We're talking about minerals. We're talking about things like phytonutrients, like I mentioned anthocyanins earlier, which are present in the grape skins and wine, red wine and purple sweet potatoes. We were talking about that.

[00:05:22] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: You start to hear about some of these concepts and this is going to be. The ones the experts in this category are going to be people like a lot of the holistic nutritionists, a lot of the functional medicine doctors, a lot of the sort of the better dieticians that have kind of broken away from the American Dietetic Association.

[00:05:42] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: I forget the new name of it. It's like whatever. But the point is They're trying to encroach on the nutritionist space. So I think they've like added the word nutrition to their organization name, but whatever. The point is these are going to be people like I can name some names, but you know, people like Andrew Weil, [00:06:00] Mark Hyman, a lot of the, a lot of the famous people, Dr.

[00:06:03] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Oz, a lot of people in the functional medicine space who are like they're good. They're really helping people understand the importance of nutrients and having nutrient dense food. And that's really valuable and of also avoiding toxins, toxicity. A lot of them will talk about the importance of organic.

[00:06:18] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: This is a really important piece at stage two of, clean eating. You'll hear that a lot, getting seed oils out. That's like the cause celeb right now at level two is like seed oils. Let's get rid of all the seed oils. Um, but make sure, you, you even What is Acetoyl is sort of the first question and anyway, we'll get more into that.

[00:06:39] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: I'm sure later, but the point here is you've got these and there's a lot of these people on YouTube who have grown up and Through the process of coming up on YouTube and learned a lot about level 2 nutrition understanding because there's a lot of that on YouTube And so that's really help to forward that [00:07:00] level two understanding in the society at large.

[00:07:01] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And I think more and more people are realizing that is, there's validity to that. And this actually is a great time to introduce the concept of the way that each level views the level below them and the level above them, right? So the classic way that that each level looks at the level below them as they say, well, those guys they're not, they're missing the boat, right?

[00:07:30] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: There's things that they don't see that they haven't seen yet that they need to see, and they, frankly, are a little bit ignorant or they're a little bit, stuck in the mud. They're not interested. They're not curious. And they're, there's just, they're not quite at my level. Right.

[00:07:44] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: So there's a little bit of an arrogance looking down on the previous levels. I'm not going to deny that. It would be foolish for me to deny that. And then looking at the level forward, they say, well, there may be a little bit of evidence for that, but it's, it's still investigational.

[00:07:59] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: It's [00:08:00] still, we're, we're not really sure about that. It's maybe there's a little pseudoscience over there. Let's cast some dispersions or cast some dispersions on it so that, people look to us as the primary expert, right? And you'll see that, whether it be grandma, or whether it be, the registered dietitian, or whether it be the holistic nutrition guru, they will look at the level above and say, well, maybe there's a little something there, but like, don't worry about that.

[00:08:31] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And so, Because it's frankly, it's a blind spot for them. They don't know much about it, right? They haven't explored it. They haven't investigated it. One of my favorite axioms, which it was actually a conventional medical doctor. I forget his name, but he had studied Dr. D. Donald's work. And he said, skepticism of the blood type theory is inversely proportional to knowledge of the blood type theory, which means the less you know about it, the more skeptical you are.

[00:08:54] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And the more you know about it, skepticism starts to go down. And eventually you're like, Oh, [00:09:00] no, this actually makes a lot of sense. Right? 

[00:09:02] Level 3: Personalized Nutrition and Nutrigenomics

[00:09:02] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: So that's a perfect segue into stage three of nutritional understanding, which is the idea of personalized nutrition, nutrigenomics epineutrogenomics.

[00:09:12] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: So the idea that we are going to customize nutrition based on genetics, epigenetics, we're going to actually use nutrition, specific nutrients and not just micronutrients, but also certain phytochemicals, et cetera, to alter gene expression and not only prevent disease, not only treat disease, but also prevent disease.

[00:09:36] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: not only prevent disease in the individual, but also in the long term with regard to the actual generational effects. So there's like a generational medicine piece here where we realize that there's these generational effects of nutrition. But I think most importantly, and this is really what I think distinguishes level three from level two, the most is there's a recognition that There [00:10:00] are genetic and epigenetic effects that different proteins, because of their specific confirmation and their specific binding affinities because a lot of proteins in fact, I think about two thirds of the food that we eat have what are called either lectins and plants or galectins and animals.

[00:10:22] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: So these are proteins which have a specific binding affinity, which means they like to bind at a, with a particular carbohydrate moiety, which is like, basically a chain of carbohydrate sugar molecules that is in a particular confirmation, a particular, arrangement in a particular order, in a particular chirality, a particular position.

[00:10:46] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Okay. So because we have these binding affinities between these carbohydrate molecules and some of the proteins that are found in our body, it turns out that some of those foods, [00:11:00] because of the structure of their protein, create inflammation in us and not in other people. And contribute to our health and well being in a way that they don't necessarily help other people.

[00:11:13] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: So one person's food is someone else's poison is the fundamental principle at the stage three knowledge of nutrition. Most of the people on the other stages are still looking at nutrition as like there's an optimal human diet, right? Like everybody should fundamentally, if they're relatively healthy, should be eating roughly the same things.

[00:11:36] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Yeah. At level two, you will have some people say, well, because you have this condition, because you're, have insulin resistance, you need to be eating more of like a keto diet, they'll get into that kind of thing. But it's mostly again, still working around the macronutrient issues, not looking at, okay, because you're, say blood type O, and there's a particular hemagglutinin in this food that binds with the [00:12:00] type O antigen, which by the way is not just on your blood, but found lining your digestive tract on every single one of your organs.

[00:12:06] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: This is why we have to do matching between blood type and some other HLA haplotypes when we're doing organ matching for organ transplants. And blood type is the first thing, the most important thing, frankly. And but also in 85 percent of people, blood type antigen is secreted into their saliva and other bodily fluids.

[00:12:25] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: So bile, semen, vaginal fluids, saliva, et cetera. So tears even. So, and they can actually. Use this. To determine the blood type of criminals and they, there's some movie clips where they're talking about, whether it was a secretor. Now he's a non secretor. So we couldn't even find out his blood type from the tears or whatever the saliva that we found at the crime scene.

[00:12:49] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: But each of these things has an interplay between. Our body in our environment. And so the degree to which we consume foods that are [00:13:00] compatible with or friendly with our unique physiology, the greater the degree to which we're going to live a happy, healthy life with as few chronic diseases and other health problems as possible.

[00:13:13] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And, on a generational basis, we can actually use these foods to turn certain basically turn up the volume on certain genes. Turn down the volume on others. And as a result. As Maddie was talking about earlier, have within three to four generations, an end of chronic disease is certainly our stand and our where we're, what we're advocating.

[00:13:35] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: So, yeah, I think that's really, people want to understand where we are, we're at that stage three, which is the fourth stage. But again, I call it stage three, because I like to rag on the stage zero people by calling it stage zero. But suffice it to say. That's where we are.

[00:13:49] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And that's what makes our approach distinct because we are bringing in this nutrigenomic, the idea of matching the food to the genes, [00:14:00] but beyond that, not just saying, well, oh, you have this one gene, which tells you that you need to eat a higher carb diet, or you have this other gene, which says, oh, maybe you should be on a higher fat diet.

[00:14:12] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: I mean, it goes way beyond that. We're looking at. You potentially, depending on which software platform we're talking about up to 6300 health actionable genes. But just in Swami, the software that we use for the nutrition planning, we look at over 100 or over 200 variables. And about a few dozen of those are genes.

[00:14:37] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And then we also can look at we look at epigenetics, the volume control settings on the genes, family health history, personal health history, presenting symptoms, lab data, biometrics, measurements of which are measurements of the body. Put all that in the computer program, it performs over 12 million calculations and generates an individualized nutrition plan for where that person is right now on their health journey.

[00:14:59] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: As [00:15:00] their health journey alters, there's different switches that we can switch on. A lot of times, for example, there's a switch for oncology. If you have active cancer you may need to eat different foods than someone who's trying to prevent cancer. This is one of the most classic blunders I see.

[00:15:16] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: In natural medicine is people will say, Oh, do these cancer preventive things because you have cancer. Well, for the same reason that you wouldn't take chemotherapy to prevent cancer, the foods that prevent cancer may not actually be very good at treating it. And. It turns out that with cancer, you don't actually want to detox when you have active cancer.

[00:15:40] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: If anything, you want to kind of retox, and you want foods that are going to help the body, help tag the the cancer cells to help the body find and fight the cancer. You sometimes want even some foods which may have cytotoxic effects, and you may want foods that actually increase inflammation, which you don't [00:16:00] want if you're on a preventive diet.

[00:16:01] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Right? So it's one of the classic blunders. We see it all the time. But the beauty of the software is it has the ability to, for you to basically go in and flip the switch and say, Yeah, I've got active cancer. All right, great. Well, not great. But you get my point. It's we're going to alter and sometimes it's flipping the values of foods from avoid to beneficial from beneficial to avoid.

[00:16:20] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And in so doing, really not only provides you with a customized nutrition plan for your unique individuality, but like at this point in your life and with what you're dealing with. So it's by far the most advanced form of nutritional personalization that I'm aware of. Most of the other stuff out there is like based on two or three genes.

[00:16:37] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: It's really kind of silly. And it doesn't even take into account epigenetics and lab data or any of that other stuff. If there was something else more advanced, I'd be using it. Like I said, this is the most advanced thing that I'm aware of on the nutritional personalization side. And it's really become the foundation of my practice over the course of the last 15 years.

[00:16:58] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And I can't imagine [00:17:00] it not continuing to be. So thank you Dr. D'Adamo for developing that and, um, continuing to pull in and updating it and having it be your life's work and your contribution to humanity. Because I really, I'm grateful to that man every day, I think speaking of gratitude, which of course is how we started this conversation.

[00:17:20] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: It's really so much of my life which I talked about last time with my own health journey has been given to me by Dr. Diadomo and his work and So I'm eternally grateful for him. All right. Anything else you want to talk about? Today? I feel like that may be sufficient for episode two, unless there's something else.

[00:17:42] Mrs. Madi Partovi: No, that was 

[00:17:42] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Did you have any questions about the four levels of nutritional understanding or? 

[00:17:46] Mrs. Madi Partovi: No, thank you for that deepening. I just, I felt I really got submerged into a real profound understanding of the levels. 

[00:17:58] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: I used to draw, [00:18:00] I wish we had a, some sort of way for me to draw it out. I used to draw it out for my patients on a whiteboard.

[00:18:07] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: There's that guy what's his name? The chiropractor who talks to people. He's like a level two guy, right? Dr. Berg, I think his name is, Eric Berg. Yeah. I'm dropping all these names today. But anyway some of his videos are great. Some of them are like, Ooh, but anyway, this is what happens when chiropractors you Start thinking that they, can practice clinical nutrition.

[00:18:28] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: But anyway their training is fundamentally in musculoskeletal system and the nervous system and how those two interplay and how to deal with, musculoskeletal and nervous system dysfunction. Any of them that are doing nutritional work have basically tacked that on at the end after, after they graduated.

[00:18:49] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: So that's not, they were not trained in that from the ground up. That's not, they're not steeped in it the way that naturopathic doctors are. So, that's my little [00:19:00] bias there, but I would just say it shows in some of the videos where, he's sort of recommending certain things to everyone. And I have the same beef with Dr.

[00:19:07] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Mercola. I mean, as long as we're dropping names, might as well do it. I'll never forget right before Mercola published his first book, he he started advocating eating raw eggs. And I just, I was aware of a study where they tried to feed raw eggs, even to chickens. And it was creating this massive biotin deficiency, which is what happens because there's a protein in the egg white called avidin, which binds biotin which is one of the essential B vitamins.

[00:19:34] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And when you bind biotin the thing about avidin is there's so much avidin in the egg white that even the biotin, which is present in the egg yolk, if you factor that in, they're still like extra avidin. So it's going to be binding more biotin from your diet. So you end up biotin deficient, which causes all sorts of problems with everything from connective tissue to, hair, skin, nails, all that kind of stuff.

[00:19:59] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: [00:20:00] And he still put that in his book. I sent him an email. I said, Joseph you cannot do this, like this is not healthy, but he's somebody who fell under the sway of one of these undies, one of these unlicensable naturopaths who, he just thought hung the moon because again, in osteopathic school, they, and look, I have a good friend of mine who's is my osteopath.

[00:20:21] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: I see him on a regular basis for osteopathic manipulative medicine therapy. We both do. And he says, look, our training is basically allopathic medicine plus osteopathy, right? Which is the manipulative part. And those of us who go into that are a tiny minority. But we don't get any more nutritional training than the MDs.

[00:20:39] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: So that's how, why I know that is because I have a friend who's a DO and just like Dr. Mercola. And so, he's I'm, I don't blame him. He was sort of obviously wowed because anybody who has got, More, again, so if he's at level one, right, which when he graduates osteopathic school and gets his license and finishes residency, he gets, he's at level one, right, somebody from level [00:21:00] two comes along and says, hey, and maybe they don't have the best ideas because they got a, they got their training with a six month online course, and then they say, hey, raw eggs, great idea.

[00:21:11] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And they had, and then he doesn't do his due diligence. He just puts it in his book. It's like, how many people ended up with biotin deficiency and hair falling out and brittle nails and Lord knows what else because they were starting to eat raw eggs. I mean, I don't know. I know that was a big trend actually also in the late seventies, early eighties as well, but I think it pretty much died out almost as quickly as it came to be.

[00:21:32] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: But then he tried to revive it again because of this bad nutrition advice he got from this unlicensable And, I this is a real challenge. It's a real issue that we're dealing with. And it's one of the things that actually spurred me to start the channel. And I got to do a shout out to Dave Asprey here again.

[00:21:48] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: We're just, we're going all in on the names today. So Dave Asprey, he's a tech guy, right? Like, Security, right? Like security software. That's where how he made his millions. Well, the first [00:22:00] few, right? And so then he starts this whole bulletproof thing and the bulletproof podcast and the bulletproof this and the bulletproof that.

[00:22:09] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And it's like, I was like, gosh, if this guy can do what he did. then imagine what somebody who actually is an expert in these topics could do, so that's why we, that's fundamentally was one of the major so I want to give him credit, like his podcast and the success of his podcast and the success of his company were big factors in like motivating us to get started with what we're doing with not only with Aspen Wellness Institute, well with me, right?

[00:22:36] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: I can't, I'm not going to throw you, I'm not going to lump you in with that, but they were factors in me in starting. Not just the part of the effect, but also frankly the optimum wellness network, which is of which the part of the effect is really just the first piece of and I'm excited about it.

[00:22:53] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: I'm excited to, to really go toe to toe and dance with some of these guys, because frankly they have some really good [00:23:00] stuff that's helping people, but there's just a lot of misunderstanding. And. I was listening to Chris Williamson, it was an episode of modern wisdom, which is his show.

[00:23:08] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: He was talking with I forget who he was talking with, but he basically said, there's just so much in for, like so much. I would hesitate to call it information. I would say there's so much data out there which is basically just numbers and people talking about health. He was pondering, he's like, maybe it's all just out there, all of this contradictory stuff, just to confuse us and basically paralyze us and keep us addicted to ultra processed foods.

[00:23:36] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And I was like, he's waking up. And I loved it because he's like, what he was really a call for and a pull for in that episode was he's like, Hey. Wouldn't it be great if we could actually figure out what an individual actually needs optimally for their You know, in their diet for their life and for their health.

[00:23:58] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And I was [00:24:00] like, yeah, it would. And guess what? It's possible today already. You don't have to wait. So, I mean, I just I'm so excited to share this and you probably could tell I'm kind of lit up by it because I just feel like there's a need and there's a gap right now in the space.

[00:24:17] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Cause I think there's so many people who say, well, we know that Ultra processed foods are bad and seed oils don't really seem that great. And, we've got issues with pesticides and we should all probably be eating organic, but how can we afford that? And so it's it's a really valuable conversation, but it's like, really, I think still playing around the edges.

[00:24:40] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And our goal is to really cut through all of that and get right to the heart and deal with really what is optimal for humans. And not all humans are, what is optimal for one human is not going to be the same thing as what's optimal for another human. It's what's optimal for you [00:25:00] as an individual, personalized nutrition.

[00:25:03] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And ultimately, anybody who's not coming from that perspective, anybody Who is telling you, Oh, there's one optimal human diet and everybody should be vegan or everybody should be paleo or everybody should be keto. Everybody should be, follow the zone or everything, like it's, that's fundamentally, it's the wrong excuse me, the wrong paradigm, this idea that.

[00:25:23] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: There is a one size fits all diet is just inherently, I mean, I hear that and part of me just, it's I just dismiss it out of hand at this point because I've accumulated over the course of my life and my career so much evidence to the contrary that it just sounds absurd to me. And I'm sure each of you has an expertise in something and you've had the experience of like, then someone comes along who thinks they know something about something you're an expert in and they make this offhand comment, which to you just sounds absurd.

[00:25:53] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And there's this, there's actually this effect and I forget the name of it. And I don't know that you will remember either, but there's a, I [00:26:00] want to look it up and maybe because it's so valuable, I'm going to, I'm actually going to pause the recording and I'm gonna look it up cause I want to share the name of it because I want to spread more information of this.

[00:26:11] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: So we'll be right back.

[00:26:16] The Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect

[00:26:16] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: So this phenomenon. It's called the Gelman Amnesia Effect, and it was originally coined by Michael Crichton, the author, and it's basically this phenomenon where if there's a topic that you know really well, you're going to read some media coverage about it and say, God, these guys don't know what they're talking about.

[00:26:39] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: But then you assume that on every other topic of which you're not an expert about, that the media just gets it right. So it's basically, you're going to notice inaccuracies, misunderstandings in the topics that you know super well, and then just generally trust the consensus, the agreement reality on topics that you're less familiar with.

[00:26:59] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: So [00:27:00] this is Gell Mann amnesia, G E L hyphen M A N amnesia effect. And it's really fascinating. I think if everybody knew about that, it would really, make a big difference in how people view the world. And I think it's so important. And I think that's why on this podcast, we're really going to bring in other people and talk with them because it's so important to consult with other experts in different areas and not just experts who agree with each other, right?

[00:27:33] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: But different divergent, even perhaps dissident views, because if you've spent your life investigating, a particular topic. You're an expert in it. And so the question is, Let's bring that expertise to the floor. Let's work out differences. We may have two people who have looked into a particular topic and see this is the challenge with nutrition.

[00:27:55] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: It's like if I'm going to have a debate or a conversation with someone who's [00:28:00] at, stage two, there's fundamentally a And there's a gap in their understanding because they haven't done the research that I have on the stage three stuff. And so to really talk about somebody and to talk to somebody and get into the nitty gritty, yeah, what about this?

[00:28:13] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Okay, how about this? I have to talk to somebody else who's already also at stage three. And that's challenging, because if you look at my little graph, like the, it kind of goes like this, right? You got a lot of people at stage zero, and then it kind of goes down like this up fewer at stage one, up fewer and even more still at stage two, and then stage three.

[00:28:30] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: It's like, there's. Maybe a dozen of us at maybe a few dozen, but the point is. It's not a huge number. And so because of that, anytime you're interacting with someone at a different stage, they're like, Oh, you're a pseudoscientist because they don't understand, they haven't done the work.

[00:28:45] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And so this is a variation of that Gell Mann amnesia effect. And I think we've all experienced it on some level. I think it's really but it's worth keeping that in mind. And I just wanted to share that with everyone, cause it's something that has [00:29:00] the awareness of that has made. When I look into things about topics that I'm not an expert in, it's made me say, well, okay, maybe this is the truth, but like, maybe not, maybe it's propaganda.

[00:29:12] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: I'm not sure. And I think that level of skepticism is important. I think that's something we should all bring to the table. And, being a skeptic being what I like to call an equal opportunity skeptic is not the same thing as being a conspiracy theorist because Saying, well, look, I'm going to be as skeptical about, oh, what's a sort of fringy idea.

[00:29:40] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Oh, shark cartilage for cancer, right? That's a classic one, right? Shark fins for cancer, take some, eat some shark cartilage. I'm going to be as skeptical of the shark cartilage for cancer as I am going to be of the childhood vaccination schedule. And most people in conventional medicine are like, Oh, dare you question our [00:30:00] sacred vaccination schedule.

[00:30:03] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: It's, I mean, this is our holy. Holy schedule, like we follow it like it's the Bible. Well, assuming the Bible is something that one follows, but my point is that's the reverence with which they deal with it. And the problem I have is that's fundamentally it's a fundamentally in my view, anti scientific view to not view both of those things with suspicion.

[00:30:31] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And especially once you see that there's a huge economic interest, people will say, Oh, but those shark fin cartilage salesmen, they have a financial interest in that. And so they're like, modern day snake oil salesman. How could you possibly trust the word they're saying? It's like, well, let me tell you about the multi billion dollar vaccination industry, which is not actually held accountable by any kind of product liability claims, any kind of personal [00:31:00] injury claims, because they basically, Congress basically eliminated that liability in, I think it was 1986.

[00:31:07] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: during the Reagan administration, they passed a law exempting vaccines from product liability claims. And most people hear that and they're like, Could that be true? Is that, but fortunately, RFK Jr has been on the air lately, and he's been kind of educating people about this but for years, I mean, corporate media censored him, and he was trying to explain this to people and ultimately, people, the whole thing about conspiracy theorists that's like a smear at this point, I think people use that all the time as a smear for people who are truly equal opportunity skeptics, who are like, look, let's follow the money, just because it's in the mainstream, just because it's, There's agreement reality around it which is to say, most people agree that something is good doesn't mean that it's necessarily good because this is what you have to remember is that every new idea ever started as a divergent [00:32:00] minority opinion of one person and then he or she then said to somebody else, wait, maybe, maybe Maybe this is how this works.

[00:32:08] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: The classic example of this in medicine is Sammelweiss, who observed midwives delivering babies and realized that they washed their hands before they would do it, and that they had fewer complications with fewer cases of sepsis and infection in the women that they were delivering. And so Samuel Weiss said maybe I could do that before surgeries and it might improve outcomes.

[00:32:32] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And lo and behold, it did. And at the time, he was the only doctor advocating this. The medical establishment, the science, all said that he was a quack. And there was no need to do that because at the time, it was considered a badge of honor. to have a surgical theater that was full of blood and guts and gore and dried disgustingness because it showed what a great skilled and seasoned surgeon you were.

[00:32:57] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: So this was the state of the [00:33:00] science in the times of Semmelweis. And now, of course, he's got a statue. In his hometown in I forget where exactly in Europe it is. I want to say Austria, but don't quote me on that. And he's got a, medical school named after him and everybody knows that he was right.

[00:33:16] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: We should all be washing our hands before surgery and frankly before a lot of other things as well. But the point is that at the time his view was incredibly contrarian, divergent, And he was obviously started as a lone wolf. I mean, I could pull examples from other disciplines as well. Could talk about Athanasius and the history of Christianity, who was at the time, the only bishop who believed what he believed, and then eventually was able to enroll all the bishops into what we now as Christians, 99 percent of Christians all over the world believe.

[00:33:50] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: But. These there's examples like this throughout history in different professions, but I think it's especially insidious in science and [00:34:00] medicine in particular, maybe my bias, because this is my area where we stifle any kind of dissent, any kind of view That is divergent from the middle 90 percent of views because, oh, there must be nothing there because the majority don't agree with it.

[00:34:19] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Well, majority have no idea about it yet. So anyway, I think that's what I need to say about that. But I just I really wanted to Explore that because I think people may have the question like, Okay, but there's so few people talking about what you call stage three. There's all these people at stage two, and there's tons of people at stage one and even more at stage zero.

[00:34:38] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Like, why are they not right? It's like, well, they're each of them has something to offer, is what I would say. But the thing is that when you throw out the baby with the bathwater is when you call the next level up pseudoscience and dismiss it. I think that's really when you run into a lot of you, you truly are throwing the baby out with the bathwater there, [00:35:00] metaphorically speaking, because you're limiting the opportunity for yourself for to grow and the opportunity to learn more and deepen your own understanding and knowledge of health and well being, which to me is almost like almost an infinite experience.

[00:35:14] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Thank you. journey. It's a journey that can last a lifetime for sure. And it's a journey that I don't think is limited to physical health, as you and I have talked about many times, and I think we'll continue to talk about on this podcast. Because I think ultimately, health is a concept that can be applied to mental health, obviously, emotional health, obviously spiritual health, even, and I think that if we're ignoring any of those dimensions, we're ignoring an aspect of our health.

[00:35:44] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And that's an argument that I have had with many people. And I'm going to make a slightly controversial statement because I think that it's, it gets to that question of spirituality a little bit, I always kind of make the joke that the atheist will get into heaven [00:36:00] before the agnostic, because at least he believes in something, right, which the idea there is that, and it's a joke, obviously, but it basically the idea there is, the atheist has faith Essentially that there's faith in the non God is what I call it.

[00:36:16] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: So it's faith in the absence of God. They have a belief, in the absence of any evidence of that being true. And in fact, I would argue considerable evidence the country, but we don't need to get into that right now. But they have a belief that there is that in the absence of God.

[00:36:32] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And I think that is Fundamentally, a faith position that they tend to, reject that concept, but I think there's some honest ones out there who say, well, Yeah, especially the ones who are out there basically proselytizing for atheism, and there's a few of those, Sam Harrison, who basically will then I said we were name dropping, we're going crazy with it today, but they basically, feel like that it's their duty to make sure that [00:37:00] as many people see the light, essentially with regard to their beliefs as possible, and I think that Also, as an example, in a way of just a lack of rigor and skepticism in, in your own process.

[00:37:18] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And again, we'll get more to that, I'm sure. But, and that's, maybe I don't know if you want to leave that in or not. We can cut all that out if you want to, but I kind of, kind of just riffing there on, on just the concept of people really allowing their worldview. I have a lot more compassion for someone who is going to analyze these things, evaluate them, every single aspect.

[00:37:45] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: of their health and say, okay, what can I do to grow in this area? Right? And so I think there is some truth to the idea that the atheist is basically, by pursuing their sort of a atheistic humanistic philosophy and trying to proselytize [00:38:00] like that's actually kind of a form of spiritual expression.

[00:38:03] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Actually, I worry more about the people who are more sort of, I don't know that's not a part of my life, right? I don't, I'm not engaged I'm as Jordan Peterson, Dr Jordan Peterson would say, I don't wrestle with God, right? Like I have no relationship with God. And that's where I feel like there is.

[00:38:19] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: I feel like that there's something missing there. I think it has an impact. I think it has an impact on the overall health of the person. And so I think in some ways. There's like this, there is validity to this idea that like, if you're wrestling with God, even if you're like, Oh, I'm wrestling with the non God, right?

[00:38:36] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: It's like there's, there is that inquiry. You're in a spiritual inquiry, whether you want to admit it or not. And I think those who are not in that inquiry at all are, It's almost like you have like this arm that you're just not using. Right. It's like, if you just imagine like, well, I'm just not going to use my right arm.

[00:38:55] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Well, eventually what happens is that arm, the muscles are going to atrophy and then you won't even be able to lift it. [00:39:00] Right. I mean, to some degree, I don't know if it'll be that quite, quite that severe, but you get what I'm saying. Is this landing? 

[00:39:05] Mrs. Madi Partovi: Yes. 

[00:39:06] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Yeah. 

[00:39:06] Mrs. Madi Partovi: And you bring it back to. 

[00:39:10] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Well, I mean, I think that the point here is really in understanding that we need to address all of the elements of health.

[00:39:17] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And specifically, we need to do that in a very open minded and yet skeptical way. And that's really, how I think of myself as an open minded skeptic and an equal opportunity skeptic. I'm going to be a skeptic of every single side of every equation. I'm not going to assume that because there's agreement reality around something that must be more likely to be true than something that's more divergent.

[00:39:42] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: I would just say that they both need to provide evidence and the evidence needs to be, it needs to make sense and it needs to fit with. The basic understanding of reality that we have developed through empiricism, to me, fundamentally, the ability to, and I'm, I'm someone who [00:40:00] obviously is a scientist.

[00:40:01] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: And I always say this, I'm a scientist. I was a scientist first and then I became a doctor and then I became a naturopathic doctor. So it's that's my hierarchy and I have similar hierarchies for my religious beliefs and different other areas of my life. But the point is that ultimately we don't have that open mindedness along with the skepticism, then we often exclude the truth because the truth often arises from these very, 

[00:40:29] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: my basic premise is, look, I recognize that we're at this point on the margins, but any new idea that turns out to be the truth always is going to start from the margins. And one of the core reasons why we started this podcast was to start bringing some of these ideas.

[00:40:49] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: from the margins into the mainstream conversation. 

[00:40:53] Conclusion and Final Thoughts

[00:40:53] Mrs. Madi Partovi: Boom. That landed so well. Thank you. Okay. And it is with this power, this passion, and this purpose [00:41:00] that we want to bring forth and that we want to share and make accessible to as many people as possible. So thank you for your generous listening. Thank you for showing up to the podcasts.

[00:41:15] Mrs. Madi Partovi: Thank you for subscribing and following and leaving the ratings and reviews. Thank you for all of that. And this has been a phenomenal episode. It 

[00:41:26] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: has. 

[00:41:27] Mrs. Madi Partovi: Of the Partovi effect. 

[00:41:28] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: I'm Dr. Ryan Partovi. 

[00:41:30] Mrs. Madi Partovi: And I am Mrs. Madi Partovi. 

[00:41:32] Dr. Ryan Partovi, JD,NMD,MIFHI: Thank you for joining us. Be well. 

[00:41:36] ​